Curse

KonohaFlash · Jul 13, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

I know there are hundreds of similar threads but most of them go down to suggestions of having ninja rangers and always stray off topic. here, ill be addressing some of the common concerns of other rangers and some that i've experienced as a ranger myself

First is the problem with pets. IMO, pets should be allowed automatically to come along if its ranger owner has a high beast mastery, say 12. If other rangers or secondary rangers want to bring their pets along with their beast mastery below 12 then they need to equip "charm animal". It makes perfect sense that a ranger with 12 beast mastery(which is the maximum w/o items) should already be considered a dedicated beastmaster and should be given the bonus of not needing to equip "charm animal" anymore to bring their pets to battle.

Second, I think they should change the way preparations work so that it will stay on and not start counting down until you fire the first arrow. For example, the 24 second timer on 'apply poison' would only start to countdown once you fire your first shot and not right after you use the skill. This would allow the ranger to have at least one set of 'prepared' arrows before every battle which should be the case if we would all look at what the word 'preparation' means.

This system would also reflect more realism in the skills in that 'prepared' arrows would only expire as you start consuming them by actually firing them and not only because of time.

Third, i agree with other folks who have been suggesting that some bows should have additional energy attached to them. Off the top of my head... ANET could call it a 'druid bow'? Of course it should come with a trade-off say slower refire rate and must come without other modifiers without the 15-20% additional damage when health > or < than 50% or enchanted etc

Fourth, marksmanship should increase not only power but also accuracy. Having a lot of pvp maps with tons of objects to hide behind to avoid arrows is bad enough, but recently, there has been an increase of people who seemed to have discovered the ultimate arrow evasion skill - strafing.

This forces rangers to use only short or half-moon bows with pindown or favorable winds or ironically for a ranger - get into melee range to even hope to hit enemies who strafe. For new rangers, please, dont ever hope to hit a strafing enemy with a flatbow 25 feet away.

So I say, let rangers with low marksmanship miss a lot but please grant eagle-eyed marksmen the boon of better accuracy!

CaptainGuru · Jul 13, 2005, 08:01 AM // 08:01

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=31911

Look down at marksmanship.

Linkie · Jul 13, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Please don't argue realism in a game where you can rise people from the dead.

Tellani Artini · Jul 13, 2005, 01:27 PM // 13:27

I think they should take out all the magic to make the game more realistic.

arnansnow · Jul 13, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

I think they should take out all the magic to make the game more realistic.

Yes, they should only allow people to be warrior and rangers. No elementalists or necromancers or monks allowed. And half the monsters would have to go, as they would not be able to survive in a realistic way.

stingite · Jul 13, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I like all 4 suggestions despite the argument of realism.

Summary
1- pets attuned to players with 12 BM or higher (no need for charm animal)
2- preparation skills buff timer begin with first shot of prepared arrow.
3- More +energy items for rangers.
4- increase in accuracy as well as power for higher marksmanship.

Are they overpowering?
1- possibly (they might have to nerf the pet to make this balanced?)
2- possibly (what's the purpose of no preperation elite arrows then?)
3- possibly (expertise is there for a reason?)
4- possibly (it's not a guided missile you're shooting there? hehe. Loved that amazon arrow skill in D2 that actually let my arrows take a 90degree turn and shoot around corners. hehe.)

I think an argument could be made against each of the suggestions, but each of them would improve my play personally. I really don't know how Anet does their balancing.

MSecorsky · Jul 13, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

There are a couple arrow skills, IIRC, that can't be dodged already... increasing accuracy with Expertise would have an expected trade-off for balance, such as reduced accuracy earlier, which could frustrate young rangers-in-training.

If Ignite Arrows lasted until you fired, wouldn't your arrows burn up in the quiver?

Thomasuwoo · Jul 13, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonohaFlash

I know there are hundreds of similar threads but most of them go down to suggestions of having ninja rangers and always stray off topic.

Yes, There are hundereds of ranger topics out there. Why couldn't you just add your suggestiongs to an existing post instead of creating a whole new one. I see no reason why this discussion couldn't take place under the one listed in the new sticky index and the excuse that they are nothing but ninja posts are a bit far fetched.Ranger suggestions
Or Pet suggestions
I doubt anyone will listen but I'd recomend you stop posting in this discusion and in one of the already exsisting ones.

KonohaFlash · Jul 13, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Tellani Artini and Linkie
I think they should take out all the magic to make the game more realistic

Please don't argue realism in a game where you can rise people from the dead.

ROFLMAO. so what are you suggesting? that ANET shouldn't base any of its game elements from 'realistic' albeit fantasy-based settings? if that's the case then let's have banana wands that shoot off cow dung for 11-22 earth damage and max damage chaos fly swatters that have +15% damage modifier against the bee swarms in pre-searing ascalon(if you can hit em)

cmon people, i wasn't suggesting that the game should be more realistic as it is - only that which would make more sense. plus i really don't think that it would unbalance the current system so much

Quote:

There are a couple arrow skills, IIRC, that can't be dodged already... increasing accuracy with Expertise would have an expected trade-off for balance, such as reduced accuracy earlier, which could frustrate young rangers-in-training.

If Ignite Arrows lasted until you fired, wouldn't your arrows burn up in the quiver?

i didn't mean that low marks rangers would miss a lot attacking stationary targets, but rather moving targets. and about the skills that can't be dodged(only 3 AFAIK, crippling shot, called shot & precision shot) ... hmmm.. IMO those are the equivalent of some warrior skills that were intended to be used to bypass 'evading' and 'blocking' stances and not for landing normal hits as would be the case if those 3 skills i mentioned would become the staple normal bow attack of rangers just so to land normal hits on strafing targets

kindle arrows should burn up but ignite arrows probably uses some sort of exploding substance who knows what, im not a dev

Wings of Illusion · Jul 13, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

This just wouldnt work for me seeing as how i just absolutly HATE animals.

Oblivial · Dec 01, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

1. Your idea on allowing maxed out beast mastery allowing the player to take their pet in without Charm Animal is a smart one, if you had that much control of your beast pet, then why wouldn't you be able to take it without Charm?
2.I agree with you on the preperations. Sure, some of them should automatically start down, but some should be able to stay until you start shooting off arrows. It's called a Preperation, but with the way they have it set up, you need an Elite skill to be able to shoot off already prepared arrows, and even then, only one at a time because of the recharge.
3.There should be more items out there that allow the user added mana, because I have only been able to use armor to do that.
4.If you have a high Marksmanship IRL than you know how to shoot better, right? You know to shoot ahead of the target to hit it when it's moving? The same should be for GW. If you have high marksmanship, you should be able to shoot strafing targets easier, but since it doesn't do that, I have to carry a sword and shield on me so I can use low-level warrior skills. Then I'm requiring the help of my pet and my party members to help keep me alive... should not be happening.

Epinephrine · Dec 01, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

1. No
2. No
3. Maybe
4. No

If you need more details:
1. Pets are great, taking a slot is not a problem. My only beefs with them is the AI and the comfort animal skill, along with the balance among the pet skills.
2. No - timing your prep to attack is good. It makes layering a ton of crapa bit more challenging, and requires planning/coordination.
3. Possibly - I would rather have the ranger staves and foci I brought up so many moons ago.
4. You already lead the target. Provided the target continues moving you will hit. The only time you miss is if they change directions once the shot is in the air, and not matter HOW good an archer you are that will miss.

Undivine · Dec 01, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Give pets for free for rangers with beastmastery at 12 or higher.

This is a really good idea. Also gives young rangers more reason to want to level up. /signed

Quote:

Make preparation skills' buff timer begin with first shot of prepared arrow.

Also very good. Using preparations in battle is not too bad at the later stages of the game, but in the beginning I found that they weren't worth it, simply because the enemy would be dead by the time I finished preparing my arrows. That sucks. I want some of the action too. This suggestion solves that.

Quote:

Add more + energy items for rangers.

More energy items? I dunno. Actually I kinda think energy is just about right on the ranger. Don't you buff up your expertise skill? And let's not forget the mana skills like Marksman's Wager and Melandru's Resiliance. It's only really an issue if you're using secondary class spells. Is that the point you were getting at?

Quote:

Increase in accuracy as well as power for higher marksmanship.

Increased accuracy on moving targets sounds nice, but to make things simpler I suggest points in Marksmanship make your arrows move faster instead. This is easier to program and results in better accuracy on moving targets, without making strafing a completely obsolete strategy. Keep in mind that when people strafe, they can't cast spells or attack. I guess it is a disadvantage against warriors who are rushing them, but rangers have some advantages over warriors too. Still, I'm all for reducing the problem of strafing, and it's very annoying and quite a major disadvantage in some cases. Some of our skills penalize us for missing, you know.

For those who bring up skills like Precise Shot, even those are not guarenteed. Strafing can still dodge them. They only prevent "evading" and "blocking". Mind you, Called Shot still works most of the time thanks to the fast arrow speed, and these sort of skills are still useful for countering Aegis or Lightning Reflexes.

yesitsrob · Dec 01, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Give pets for free for rangers with beastmastery at 12 or higher.

And what if I don't want to take a pet with me? What if I just want a powerful Edge of Extinction? Or a long lasting Tigers Fury.

actionjack · Dec 01, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Here is my Ranger Equipment Suggestions (maybe not the ultimate, but I think is needed):

- Experties req Bow (why limit bow to only Marksmenship when Expeerties have so many Bow skill too)
- Wilderness req Offhand item (+energy, look like a flower/plant)
- Beastmastery req Pet equipment ( have Pet Armor, Pet "weapon", and Pet Packs(?), but can only equip one. Equip in your off hand)

Undivine · Dec 01, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

And what if I don't want to take a pet with me? What if I just want a powerful Edge of Extinction? Or a long lasting Tigers Fury.

Come on. We both know it isn't worth it. Tiger's Fury has a recast of 10 seconds. You don't need it to last 10 seconds. It's okay if 1 second is 33% slower.

Edge of Extinction doesn't need to be at 12 beastmastery either. You wouldn't pump an attribute to 12 points just for one non-essential skill. That weakens your other skills too severely.

Undivine · Dec 01, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

- Wilderness req Offhand item (+energy, look like a flower/plant)

Looks like a flower? I happen to have a male ranger, and he's not carrying a sissy flower. How about something related to surviving in the wilderness? A hunter's knife? A totem?

dpince182 · Dec 01, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

a 12 in BM is almost required for a successful Edge Bomb build using EoE

Epinephrine · Dec 01, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

To those who say these are good ideas: You don't understand balance. Sure, more power sounds good to you, but these ideas aren't good in that there is no balance. A pet is useful, that's why it takes a skillslot - it's much better than most skills too. Giving a ranger a free pet at 12 BM is unbalanced. If you can't manage to contribute in a fight you are waiting too long to activate your prep, and probably weren't needed anyway - activate them BEFORE engaging. The accuracy thing doesn't even make sense, arrows simply don't change directions in the air to follow a target - don't like missing? get a faster bow.

The only one of these I agree with at all is energy items for rangers, to give them the option of using something other than a bow - many rangers opt to not use a bow (they trap/beastmaster/use a secondary) and they don't have very good choices of items. This has been discussed before, by many people, including myself.

Rico Carridan · Dec 01, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonohaFlash

I know there are hundreds of similar threads but most of them go down to suggestions of having ninja rangers and always stray off topic. here, ill be addressing some of the common concerns of other rangers and some that i've experienced as a ranger myself

First is the problem with pets. IMO, pets should be allowed automatically to come along if its ranger owner has a high beast mastery, say 12. If other rangers or secondary rangers want to bring their pets along with their beast mastery below 12 then they need to equip "charm animal". It makes perfect sense that a ranger with 12 beast mastery(which is the maximum w/o items) should already be considered a dedicated beastmaster and should be given the bonus of not needing to equip "charm animal" anymore to bring their pets to battle.

I strongly disagree with this. No other class has such a powerful innate ability tied to a skill. Should necros get summon bone minions for free with 12 death magic? I don't think so. OTOH, I think that it would be nice if they combined charm and comfort animal (and/or increasing the healing power), since carrying both of these skills annoying but often necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonohaFlash

Second, I think they should change the way preparations work so that it will stay on and not start counting down until you fire the first arrow. For example, the 24 second timer on 'apply poison' would only start to countdown once you fire your first shot and not right after you use the skill. This would allow the ranger to have at least one set of 'prepared' arrows before every battle which should be the case if we would all look at what the word 'preparation' means.

I've never had a problem with this. Just throw on your preparation just before the enemy comes into aggro range. Also, note that there are no skills in the game that have semi-permanent effect like this, except for enchantments. Maybe an equivalent -1 energy degen on preparations would balance this out, but frankly, I'd prefer to keep the energy and keep them as they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonohaFlash

Third, i agree with other folks who have been suggesting that some bows should have additional energy attached to them. Off the top of my head... ANET could call it a 'druid bow'? Of course it should come with a trade-off say slower refire rate and must come without other modifiers without the 15-20% additional damage when health > or < than 50% or enchanted etc

Warriors don't have a +energy item either, Henge sword aside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonohaFlash

Fourth, marksmanship should increase not only power but also accuracy. Having a lot of pvp maps with tons of objects to hide behind to avoid arrows is bad enough, but recently, there has been an increase of people who seemed to have discovered the ultimate arrow evasion skill - strafing.

This forces rangers to use only short or half-moon bows with pindown or favorable winds or ironically for a ranger - get into melee range to even hope to hit enemies who strafe. For new rangers, please, dont ever hope to hit a strafing enemy with a flatbow 25 feet away.

So I say, let rangers with low marksmanship miss a lot but please grant eagle-eyed marksmen the boon of better accuracy!

How exactly would they make arrows more accurate? The flight path of the arrow is fixed as soon as the arrow leaves the bow to where the target will end up at given their current state of motion. What more can you do? They can't change their flight path in midshot, that doesn't make sense. Honestly, if people strafing is a problem, stick on favorable winds or read the wind... strafing doesn't really help much then. If they do something to improve the accuracy of rangers, then I think to counter that effect, they should make it that arrows no longer pass through obstacles like rocks, walls, and pillars!

Rico